Arranged marriages?

[Pally]

Hello,

I know I can look this up (I'm supposed to look this up, but I don't quite know how to do that) but I have a few questions on this topic.

What does Sikhi say about arranged marriages? I know its mostly a cultural thing, but is there any mention of this in the Guru Granth Sahib?

What should be proper protocol? Like what are the steps to be taken to do this correctly? And if it is supposed to be, why chose arranged marriage and how should it happen?

Also, what does Sikhism say about marriages between the three "river-divided" groups (Malwaye, Duaba, Majhe)? Is it along the same paths as having castes? Is it allowed? Is it wrong? And where does this differentiation come from? Why the the differences in the language and culture (I have heard different cultural lives exist between the people of these areas)??


Lastly, what about dating? Anything at all with regards to dating


If I could get any insight, I'd really appreciate it! I've been wondering for a long time and thought now is a good time as ever to get some answers!

Thanks in advance for any help. Please forgive me for any mistakes. I am still learning.

Pally

[Akali]

the choice is yours...
but since this is "canada", stick with arranged marriage.

ever since ive came here, ive been to about 20 weddings....hummmm about 20 yeah (me, mum,sis and bro)

out of those 20 weddings 15 of them ended up having a divorce within 6 months
within 12/18 months later the other 5 ended up divorcing aswell, all were love marriages...

theres tons of things that indo-canadains screwed up in canada marriage is jus one of them.
so be very careful of who you want to be with.

[Pally]

Akali,

I've experienced the same "love-marriage" downfalls as you have, but with all due respect, everyone is entitled to add their own opinions; however, I was inquiring more on what the Sri Guru Granth Sahib says about these topics. Would you have any knowledge of that, which you could pass on to me?

Thanks! Forgive my mistakes and I appreciate the help.

-Pally

[pH]

Pally,

I actually have very little knowledge of the reyat maryada, but I'll try and say something that I think would be in line with basic Sikh principles. I think arranged marriage may be the safest way to go in terms of preventing or decreasing the amount of egotism or lust involved. For example, if two people are dating (as in the Western definition of dating), then there seems to be lots of lust involved, as I've seen with many people and in the media. This can also happen with arranged marriages of course, but I think with arranged marriages the emphasis may be more on family values, and two people may feel more inclined to behave in a more "conservative" manner.

That being said, two people who are friends can decide to pursue a relationship of some sort, but they should be aware of the fact that lust could get in the way of a more pure relationship. I don't know, sometimes arranged marriages can go bad too if they are forced, so in that case it woulud be better if people could choose a partner on their own.

I think the main point to keep in mind is that there appear to be many potential complications with relationships but if Sikhi is important to you, then you should try to choose someone who also feels similarly about Sikhi and who will walk with you on the path.

I'm personally also confused about this issue, and I don't really know which of the above I would want. I think God will show us the way

I'm sorry if I've made any mistakes, and these are really just my opinions.

[Akali]

ph said:

Pally,

That being said, two people who are friends can decide to pursue a relationship of some sort, but they should be aware of the fact that lust could get in the way of a more pure relationship. I don't know, sometimes arranged marriages can go bad too if they are forced, so in that case it woulud be better if people could choose a partner on their own.

that part i agree with...props to ya Pally

[beantk]

Rehatnama Mukhthnama says:

binaa ana(n)dh bivaah thae bhugathae par kee joe || sun sikhaa gur kehi thhaakae maeraa sikh n soe ||25||Without having Anand Karaj those who have sexual relationships. Listen O' Sikh the Guru states, he is not my Sikh.


As a Sikh, it is a kureith to commit any lustful acts before marriage, so it is best to stay away from any relationships as temptation takes over the mind when one is in a relationship and most likely a person is bound to commit a lustful act. A sikh is not allowed to even kiss before marriage. it is concidered a kureith, they become impure and have to take amrit again.

As for your question about if different 'casts' are allowed to marry. There is no such thing is casts. As Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated "na koee hindu na koee muslmaan". Guru Nanak Dev Ji got rid of the different casts systems and said everyone is equal HOWEVER, the punjabi CULTURE does not agree with cross cast marriages. As a sikh it does not matter which 'cast' the person is from, because everyone is equal.

Many people confuse culture and religion. Sikhi and the punjabi culture are two different things.

khaalasaa soe naam siou(n) jorrehi || khaalasaa soe ba(n)dhhan ko thorrehi ||30||
They are the Khalsa who remain attached to the True Naam. They are the Khalsa who break away their worldly bonds.

In bani it continually says that everything in this world is temporary and every relationship is temprary as well since everyone is going to die one day or another. However NAAM is never temporary, God is the only TRUTH in this world as God remains alive for ever. Which is why it is encouraged to not really 'care' about relationships or the opposite sex as a Sikh should be concentrating on NAAM and breaking away from the false and temporary relationships and not get caught up in them.

So in short, its not encouraged for a Sikh to be in a relationship or dating before marriage however if there is someone you want to marry, by all means you can talk to them but just stay away from physical contact, and never forget the reason why we are on this earth, it is not to get married or have children or find the perfect wife or husband. God should be our husband and we were sent to this earth for one reason, to JAP NAAM and realize our true selves--> the athmaan(soul).


Anyways this is very long and kind of vague but I hope this kind of helped.

Sorry if i made any mistakes or insulted anyone.

Vaheguru.

[Pally]

Beantk,

Thanks so much! that clears up a lot of questions. I appreciate your help

- Pally

[nuyourk]

This is what the panthic maryada says about marriage:

Anand Sanskar (Lit. Joyful Ceremonial: Sikh Matrimonial Conventions and Ceremony)
Article XVIII

(a) A Sikh man and woman should enter wedlock without giving thought to the prospective spouse’s caste and descent.

(b) A Sikh’s daughter must be married to a Sikh.

(c) A Sikh’s marriage should be solemnized by Anand marriage rites.

(d) Child marriage is taboo for Sikhs.

(e) When a girl becomes marriageable, physically, emotionally and by virtue of maturity of character, a suitable Sikh match should be found and she be married to him by Anand marriage rites.

(f) Marriage may not be preceded by engagement ceremony. But if an engagement ceremony is sought to be held, a congregational gathering should be held and, after offering the Ardas before the Guru Granth Sahib, a kirpan, a steel bangle and some sweets may be tendered to the boy.

(g) Consulting horoscopes for determining which day or date is auspicious or otherwise for fixing the day of the marriage is a sacrilege. Any day that the parties find suitable by mutual consultation should be fixed.

(h) Putting on floral or gilded face ornamentation, decorative headgear or red thread bands round the wrist, worshipping of ancestors, dripping feet in mild mixed with water, cutting a berry or jandi (Prosopis spicigera) bushes, filling pitcher, ceremony of retirement in feigned displeasure, reciting couplets, performing havans [sacrificial fire], installing vedi (a wooden canopy or pavilion under which Hindu marriages are performed), prostitutes dances, drinking liquor, are all sacrileges.

(i) The marriage party should be as small a number of people as the girl’s people desire. The two sides should greet each other singing sacred hymns and finally by the Sikh greeting of Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

(j) For marriage, there should be a congregational gathering in the holy presence of Guru Granth Sahib. There should be hymn-singing by ragis or by the whole congregation. Then the girl and boy should be made to sit facing the Guru Granth Sahib. The girl should sit on the left side of the boy. After soliciting the congregation’s permission, the master of the marriage ceremony (who may be a man or woman) should bid the boy and girl and their parents or guardians to stand and should offer the Ardas for the commencement of the Anand marriage ceremony.

The officiant should then appraise the boy and girl of the duties and obligations of conjugal life according to the Gurus tenets.

He should initially give to the two an exposition of their common mutual obligations. He should tell them how to model the husband-wife relationship on the love between the individual soul and the Supreme Soul in the light of the contents of circumambulation (lavan) hymns in the Suhi measure (rag) section of the Guru Granth Sahib.

He should explain to them the notion of the state of “a single soul in two bodies” to be achieved through love and make them see how they may attain union with the Immortal Being discharging duties and obligations of the householders life. Both of them, they should be told, have to make their conjugal union a means to the fulfillment of the purpose of the journey of human existence; both have to lead clean and Guru-oriented lives through the instrumentality of their union.

He should then explain to the boy and girl individually their respective conjugal duties as husband and wife. The bridegroom should be told that the girl’s people having chosen him as the fittest match from among a whole lot, he should regard his wife as his better half, accord to her unflinching love and share with her all that he has. In all situations, he should protect her person and honour, he should be completely loyal to her and he should show as much respect and consideration for her parents and relations as for his own.
The girl should be told that she has been joined in matrimony to her man in the hallowed presence of the Guru Granth Sahib and the congregation. She should ever harbour for him deferential solicitude, regard him the lord and master of her love and trust; she should remain firm in her loyalty to him and serve him in joy and sorrow and in every clime (native or foreign) and should show the same regard and consideration to his parents and relatives as she would, to her own parents and relatives.

The boy and girl should bow before the Guru Granth Sahib to betoken their acceptance of these instructions. Thereafter, the girl’s father or the principal relation should make the girl grasp one end of the sash which the boy is wearing over his shoulders and the person in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib should recite the matrimonial circumambulation stanzas (lavan of the fourth Guru in the Suhi musical measure section of the Guru Granth). After the conclusion of the recitation of each of the stanzas, the boy, followed by the girl holding the end of the sash, should go round the Guru Granth Sahib while the ragis or the congregation sing out the recited stanza.

The boy and girl, after every circumambulation, should bow before the Guru Granth Sahib in genuflexion, lowering their forehead to touch the ground and then stand up to listen to the recitation of the next stanza. There being four matrimonial circumambulation stanzas in the concerned hymn, the proceeding will comprise four circumambulations with the incidental singing of the stanza. After the fourth circumabulation, the boy and girl should, after bowing before the Guru Granth Sahib, sit down at the appointed place and the ragis or the person who has conducted the ceremony should recite the first five and the last stanza of the Anand Sahib. Thereafter, the Ardas should be offered to mark the conclusion of the Anand marriage ceremony and the sacred pudding distributed.

(k) Persons professing faiths other than the Sikh faith cannot be joined in wedlock by the Anand Karaj ceremony.

(l) No Sikh should accept a match for his/her son or daughter for monetary consideration.

(m) If the girl’s parents at any time or on any occasion visit their daughter’s home and a meal is ready there, they should not hesitate to eat there. Abstaining fromeating at the girl’s home is a superstition. The Khalsa has been blessed with the boon of victuals and making others eat by the Guru and the Immortal Being. The girl’s and boy’s people should keep accepting each other’s hospitality, because the Guru has joined them in relationship of equality.

(n) If a woman’s husband has died, she may, if she so wishes, finding a match suitable for her, remarry. For a Sikh man whose wife has died, similar ordinance obtains.

(o) The remarriage may be solemnized in the same manner as the Anand marriage.

(p) Generally, no Sikh should marry a second wife if the first wife is alive.

(q) A baptized Sikh ought to get his wife baptized.

[Pally]

Oh wow nuyourk. Thank you so much for that post. A LOT of questions were answered. I will forward this on, thanks a lot!

- Pally