TURBAN SHAVE

[anonymous]

I know this topic is very controversial, so would everyone please think before posting. My main motive for post this is to get peoples insight and not insult anyone.

I want to know the ongoing trend of the "Turban Shave", meaning when Sikh mundae keep the hair on their head but trim their beard? I know that Sikhi is an ongoing learning process for all, but isn't this showing disrespect.

There are some men who try to keep a full trim beard, and others who look ridiculous because they keep only a pencil shave. What is the point of a pencil shave?

What are peoples comments to this?

Anonymous

[kuljitbhullar]

I dont think this forum is a place for you to tell people what you think "looks ridiculous" and what is acceptable. You clearly stated that you want people to think before posting.

[anonymous]

I believe I did think before I posted.

My reason for that is that I posted this under the Sikhi Forum because I believe that it is not acceptable for someone to trim their beard and take on the form of a Gursikh. For example I'm sure you believe and many others believe that it is not acceptable for someone to take amrit and then trim their beard or hair and claim that they are living up to the Sikh Rehat Maryada. I did not mean to offend anyone and I explicitly stated that these are my beliefs and that this is a very controversial topic. Speaking from a Gursikh's point of view I believe that someone who keeps a turban should have enough respect to keep their beard as well.

[imsunny]

I'm with you a 100% anonymous...there is no point in being a little gursikh, either be whole heartedly gursikh or not at all...just my opinion.

[vic]

Anonymous, whoever you maybe, I think you've started a very controversial topic indeed. True, this might provide some insight into the minds of young Sikhs and for that reason this thread might be valuable. However, we can't ignore the fact that this topic might offend some and may even push people further away. Let it be known that the SSA is stricly opposed to judging people in any form and we are open to anyone and we do not condone any of this type of behaviour within our club.

I will also say this: It is not in our place, or power to judge anyone's lifestyle choice and their behaviour (whether they cut their beard or shave, or are homosexual, or any other lifestyle choice). Dharam Raj will be the final judge. I believe the best phrase to explain this is "we reap what we sow" which is stated in Japji Sahib (Pauri 20). We are all accountable for our individual actions/behaviour when our time is up and that is what we will be judged upon.

Perspectives:

Your statement that, from a Gursikh's point of view, it is wrong for someone to keep their turban but trim their beard, is absolutely correct. The Sikh rehat maryada (code of conduct) forbits it. But, what about people who aren't amritdhari? People who haven't taken Pahul (Amrit) shouldn't be held to such high standards because they haven't taken that step towards living their life similary to the Gurus; they aren't breaking a code they've agreed to live upto.So...what I am saying is that if Gursikhs are shaving or trimming their beards, they are disrespecting other Gursikhs and also all Sikhs in general. These people shouldn't have become Khalsa because they clearly can't live upto those standards. I've personally not seen a Gursikh do this, but I've hard many worse things so it would be foolish to completely dismiss the thought that Gursikhs aren't capable of doing this.

I also agree and understand that it doesn't make sense for a Sikh (whether they are amritdhari or not) to keep their turban but shave and trim their beard; it's a hypocritical image in one sense. Sometimes you will also see people putting baseball caps over their turban all while supporting a chin-strap. This type of behaviour could insult and hurt Gursikhs who pride themselves in keeping their hair and adhering to rehat. So to answer your question about whether this could be disrespectful: it will be disrespectful to Gursikhs.

But, is it disrespectful to ALL sikhs? Depends on your viewpoint. I think that people who are trimming their beards but have a turban are not quite ready to walk the true path. BUT there are also other people in our community who don't have turbans but cut their hair, and they also aren't ready to walk this path. So it is unlikely that all people will be offended because not all people are gursikhs and haven't committed to living that way of life just yet.

Again, who are we to judge anyone else? People are different; no one shares the same values, beliefs as everyone else (otherwise we'd all be the same).We don't know the real motives as to why people cut their hair because there are so many factors (society, family) that influence someone's beliefs.

I think we should only worry about how we ourselves can become better Sikhs FIRST, then worry about other people. Because, my anonymous friend, a true Sikh is rare to find in this age so that means we all have work to do.

P.S. I've edited this post a few times to make it shorter because it was wayyy too long and to make my thoughts more clear.

[sharon.k™]

vic said:

I think we should only worry about how we ourselves can become better Sikhs FIRST, then worry about other people. Because, my anonymous friend, a true Sikh is rare to find in this age so that means we all have work to do.

[sharon.k™]

hjhaj said:

IM jus gonan say THANK YOU SHARAN... it was the best response anyone can say.. Im with you 150%

umm... thanks hars! but, it wasn't me ... I just quoted Vic. His response was awesome!

...and, HARS! it's sharOn... sheesh jk

[Pally]

I agree with Vic completely. It is not up to us, nor should we as those following Sikhi, to judge others and their paths. I personally don't care if you do or do not shave, but I will respect anyone that does follow the Sikhi path and helps me gain knowledge as well. I'm pretty sure that we are not supposed to judge the physical but to understand the internal being.

[aman]

I agree with Vic as well. Instead of focusing on what other's are doing wrong, we should take a look at ourselves first before we begin to point fingers and judge others. One more thing i would like to add is that, our religion is a learning process... we shouldn't criticize others because they are not at the stage WE feel is "desirable" or "optimal."
Hm... oh and to imsunny, no one can be perfect at anything... that doesn't mean we stop trying... not everyone can easily commit themselves to something whole heartedly (especially something like religion when there is plenty of room for error...), but i respect your viewpoint and see where you're coming from.
Thanks for reading.

[Pally]

Now, this might come on strong Jessika but please understand it is not my intent.

Would you say that the ideal Sikh should have a balance of both religion AND culture? And would you say we should start moving in that direction? What if you are Amritdhari but you have a mohawk and lots of piercings, should you be accepted and not criticized because of your strong personality? (I'm not saying such people would not be accepted but its just a hypothetical question. These people are more then welcome but as we know, Gursikhs must adhere to certain requirements)

I'm not trying to attack but just want to get more insight into Jessika's view. I find it quite interesting.


Pally

[imsunny]

hmmm well i don't know about judging people...cause I don't judge. As you all know I love you guys . Even if you have Turbans and trimmed beards, because in the end it is your choice...and most of you are better sikhs than me so that said...I was merely stating my opinion on the matter which is...well refer to my previous post

[Harman]

First of all no one should be judged based on physical apperance because we all know there are those who do wrong while being gursikh, and those who do great things who are not gursikh.

However, I think it is sort of contradictory to have a shaven beard and keep a turban. I myself eat meat, and have a hair cut and as such can say that i am not a true sikh, and nor can I ever say I am until I abide by the religion completely - then and only then can I say that I am a true Sikh. I understand that Sikhi is a journey that everyone must go through on their own and everyone is at their own levels, but I dont think that one should take the religion lightly or abide by some rules and not others.

But, I also do understand that its easier for me to have this point of view becuase I never had Khes or been baptized. People who have turbans, especially young generations, may have different pressures or feel as though they dont 'fit in' with the crowd for whatever reason, and as such adapt in diferent ways.

In my opinion, Sikhism is a journey that you move forwards towards and one should do things that take you closer to religion if you want to truely follow it, that could take 10 days or 10 life times its up to you to follow the journey on your own. If in your heart you are unsure or feel apprehensive about what you want, then you are doing yourself a disservice by contradicting the religion. If in your heart your goal is to be a true sikh, and follow the religion, then truly take steps towards that, start with something small and work your way up.

I think alot of times religion is taken too lightly but I guess its always up to everyone's own interpretation.

People should be judged based on their merits as a human being, and their actions not on their physical appearence. So im not hating on people with shaved beard, as long as they know what they want and they'are good people, who is anyone to judge them?

[Mez]

Honestly, I can say I know where people are coming from when they see these "turban shave" people...however, I have to agree with everyone else here. None of us are in positions to pass judgements on others, and whatever they want to do, they can do it.

[Jasleen]

Again very controversial, I think this just may be one of the reasons for some, if im totally off just say so, but some MAY be in a social situation where there aren't alot of people pushing a sikhi lifestyle such as keeping your hair and I think that affects alot of peoples mentality about cutting hair or trimming beards or w/e. To be totally honest it affected mine and I decided to cut my hair. If a individual is in an environment where most people they interact with are gursikhs I doubt they would feel the need to trim their beards etc. It may not even be this reason, it may just be a choice made but that doesnt mean that they are ignorant towards their religion, because we have a variety of different people in our ssa today, both gursikhs and non gursikhs that are interested in learning about sikhi. Either way and I totally agree with Harman "People should be judged based on their merits as a human being, and their actions not on their physical appearence"

[aman]

Hmm.... anonymous? are u there?