Sikhi and Gambling

[Inder]

How is gambling (for money or other stakes) looked upon by our Guru Ji's and Guru Granth Sahib Ji? It is allowed, or it is not?

I have heard pro's and con's from both sides. But I would like to hear from some of you. If you have references, even better.

Thanks

[mannai]

Guru Ji prohibited gambling because it is not honest work. Sikhs are not supposed to gamble or beg, we are supposed to earn our living through our own honest hard work.

Baber was a Moghul Emperor at the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru Ji was in a city now known as Eminabad which is located in Pakistan. Baber had invaded Punjab and plundered everything. Among the prisoners he had taken it is said that Guru Ji and Bhai Mardana were among them as well. All of the prisoners were ordered to operate the handmills to grind corn. Guru Ji instructed Bhai Mardana to start playing his Rebec and Guru Ji started to do Kirtan. As the Shabads were sung all of the prisoners came and sat near Guru Ji to listen to the singing of the Shabad and every hand mill started to grind automatically. Upon seeing this the prison gaurds were astonished and sent a message to Baber. Baber came to see this for himself and upon seeing this he quickly realized that Guru Ji was a holy man who was enlightened by the light of God and he asked Guru Ji if there was anything that he could do for him. Guru Ji explained to him that what he had done (in terms of the massacre) was a great sin and blamed Baber for the whole thing. Baber was quickly overcome with immense remorse and was filled with a new sense of moral and spiritual consciousness and fell to the feet of Guru Ji and he asked Guru Ji to be gracious to him. Guru Ji told him if he desired kindness he should set all the prisoners free, Baber agreed on the condition that Guru Ji bless his kingdom and allow it to continue for many generations to come. The Guru Ji agreed and gave Baber instructions to rule. (This is where the gambling part comes in)

Guru Ji stated "Deliver just judgement, reverence for holy men, forswear wine and gambling. The monarch who indulgeth in these vices shall, if he survives, bewail his misdeeds. Be merciful to the vanquished, and worship God in spirit and in truth."
(I summarized the Saaki, the full length can be found at searchgurbani.com/gurus/gurunanak9.htm)

It is shown here that Guru Ji told Baber to forbid gambling. So basically Guru Nanak Dev Ji was against gambling and in that case I believe that it is against Sikhi.

Maya in Sikhi means a delusion. In the Guru Granth Sahib Ji it states that a person attached to maya cannot escape the cycle of life, death, and rebirth, which is the goal of a Sikh. It is also said that a Sikh can only escape this cycle through living a life of honest work, service to others, and remembrance of Vaheguru.

I found a quote in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji which touches on this:

maa-i-aa moothaa chaytas naahee janam gavaa-i-o aalsee-aa. ||2||
Cheated and plundered by Maya, you do not think of God, and you waste your life in laziness.
Page 92, Line 9
www.srigranth.org

I would consider gambling a form of maya and as you can see it is against Sikhi because it takes you away from Vaheguru. It would be much better to spend your time reciting Vaheguru and engrossing yourself in the remembrance of Vaheguru.

As well I would say that gambling leads to many other negative influences which ultimately leads to an uncomfortable life.


Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni Jio

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Inder]

that was insightful mannai. Thanks for providing the references as well.

The key being that gambling doesn't equal honest earning

[Pally]

What if you gamble but do not do it for Maya? But do it for fun? Like say if I play Poker or other card games and just do it to play the game? and don't care for earning money?

[Inder]

do u put money on the game?

[Pally]

Say if you do like $5 or something

[mannai]

I was doing some research and Sikhnet.com has a wicked Q&A section on their website. The website is run by very good and Chardi Kala Sikhs so I'm assuming their insight on any particular subject is very good. To get to the point, I don't think their is anything in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji that explicitly states something about "playing cards" or anything of that sort so here I believe we have to apply our own judgements based on the rules that are apparent in Sikhi.

Here is the Sikhnet Q & A for playing cards:

Is it prohibibted in the Guru Granth Sahib to play cards if you are not gambling?


********
reply
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Sat Siri Akaal. No, card playing is not prohibited. It is a wonderful diversion and can be quite stimulating intellectually without the gambling.
-DKK
Can be seen at www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/youth.nsf/3d8d6eacce83bad8872564280070c2b3/5ffcc0444ff0ea6787256ee50010862f!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,gambling

They basically say you can play cards or such games as long as you don't gamble because the one thing gambling goes against in Sikhi is that it prevents one from earning an honest living.

However the Damdami Taksal Rehat Maryada states the following:
"Gambling and playing cards and gambling are not permitted."
Can be seen at the website under the heading Kara www.damdamitaksal.com/lit_basicsfivek.htm

I'm assuming if you were following the Damdami Taksal Rehat Maryada you would not be allowed to play cards even if you were not gambling but that is just my interpretation of what their Maryada states. I might be wrong

Another thing is that Maya is basically anything that is a delusion and prevents you from concentrating on Vaheguru and the remembrance of Vaheguru. So it can be money, the working out quest for the "perfect body" (lol you know it Inder starting Jan 1st), attachment to something etc. I guess you just really need to know how to control yourself so you don't make something like that a priority over Vaheguru.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni Jio

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!!
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

[sharon.k™]

Jee-aho mailay, baahro nirmal.
There are those who are impure from within but clean outwardly.

Baahrho nirmal, jee-aho ta mailay, tinee janam joo-ai haare-aa.
They, who are clean outwardly but impure from within, lose their human life in a vain gamble.

-Anand Sahib (Pauree 19)

[imsunny]

Hmmm you know something could complicate this a bit. A professional poker tournament...like its not dishonest earning then...cause these are people who have trained to play a game in which their winnings are earned through gambling.
Its akin to any other sport except for the fact that gambling is involved in order to win the prize...I hope you guys get what i'm trying to say, if not then I will try to make it clearer

[Mez]

I can understand that gambling may not be earnings that one makes with hard work...so for sure Casino's may fall into the gambling category along with buying lottery tickets, etc.

However, what about the following scenarios?

Scenario 1
(I don't know how things are over in BC), but here a lot of the Hospitals generally have fundraisers like twice a year, or even charities like the Cancer Society, Heart & Stroke Foundation, and what they do is sell lottery tickets for 100 dollars or 200 or something, and all the proceeds go towards research for the respective charities, or funding for the Hospitals themselves, and the prizes are donated by car companies, house making companies, etc.

So is it really bad that you "gamble" but you are giving money for a good cause?


Scenario 2
What if your career depends on your gambling? What if you are a professional stock broker, or daytrader, etc, working in the financial district in your city? Is it really bad then? Is this job considered bad?

Scenario 3
For people that buy houses, and then keep them for a few months and sell them off for higher prices, is that gambling? I guess in a way it could be, because dependent upon factors of rising prices in real estate, or the value of the house could go a bit lower because of recession, but in essence, you don't really "work hard" in helping the price to go up/down, so when you sell it, does that also fall into the gambling category if you have made some profit?

Scenario 4
Same applies for land. You buy a few acres of land like at say 500 000, and then the price soars, to like 1 000 000. You didn't do anything but buy the land and pay interest for a few months/years. But now it sells for double the price you bought it for. Is this bad?

(Really good topic, btw!)

[jessika]

Gambling makes me unfortable even if i'm winning I dont like it.

people in business that try to be tricky give me the same feeling so that would also count as not making an honest living since you're being manipulative

[sharon.k™]

mez said:

However, what about the following scenarios?

Scenario 1
(I don't know how things are over in BC), but here a lot of the Hospitals generally have fundraisers like twice a year, or even charities like the Cancer Society, Heart & Stroke Foundation, and what they do is sell lottery tickets for 100 dollars or 200 or something, and all the proceeds go towards research for the respective charities, or funding for the Hospitals themselves, and the prizes are donated by car companies, house making companies, etc.

So is it really bad that you "gamble" but you are giving money for a good cause?

Hi S.Bains, I agree that this type of gambling does go to a good cause, and it can be very tempting as well... I have told my mom about these lotteries and I get really excited over all the nice houses and the fancy cars... but I'll never forget what my mom told me once about these kinds of lotteries...

pretty much, if you want to help out charities, do it. You don't need any incentive to help out the less fortunate or the sick. One purpose in doing seva is asking for nothing in return. By participating in these types of lotteries, we are expecting to win something "for our good deed." With that expectance, you miss the point of donating money all together. Yes, buying these lotteries is for a good cause, but donating money without getting anything in return is considered the bigger seva.

[hkiran]

From what I know gambling is pretty much prohibited in almost all religions!!